Episode 2
Watching the Road and marketing for artists
October 18, 2023 (S01E03) Guests:
We are Velasquez Media short for Velasquez Digital Media Communications, a professional communications company that focuses on working with BIPOC and
LGBTQ women identified businesses that need messaging in digital media.
As a woman and minority owned business, we are interested in talking to couples that look like us: lesbian couples in a service business. That’s why this podcast exists. I have been looking for a queer business podcast that showcased LGBTQ and BIPOC owners. I found a few in each category but none that mixed the two. So we created Key Piqued Interest podcast. This show is looking to honestly connect with other successful LGBTQ couples in business.
We aren’t going to exclusively focus on couples. But this first series will focus on couples running a business. We are trying to show the world that we are out there contributing and making a difference in our communities.
We’re also trying to create visibility for BIPOC LGBTQ folks in business.
We hope you enjoy this episode. We are open to nominations, introductions, and suggestions for guests.
Hit us up in the comments. Thanks for watching and listening.
Terry Irons Sonia Disappear Fear
Transcript
WEBVTT
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::He peaked interest, K p I, entrepreneurial Insight,
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::L G B T Q editions.
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::Today's guests are Sonya Stein and her wife Terry Irons of
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::Disappear Fear.
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::We were
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::Talking about how long we do each other. Um, and
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::Yeah,
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::It's a long time. 30 years, couple days, 30 years.
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::I mean, I mean, even for Sonya to be out there, um,
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::with such, uh, longevity, I'm just, you know,
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::a odd and grateful that you're out there doing this and, um,
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::thanks, uh, for always coming out and, and, uh,
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::you know, keeping up with this, this is, that's real stamina.
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::I thank
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::You. Thank you. Well, it, it, it really would be nothing, you know, like,
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::unless there were people that were interested in it.
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::So as long as there's some interest, it's oxygen,
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::you know, that's,
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::That's a really cool thing. And so, like for, um, Piper and I,
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::you know, we've been in business, this business since 2003,
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::um, and we are a service business.
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::And we just interviewed a couple this morning that are also in a service
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::business.
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::And it's a very different sort of situation where Piper and I are sort of
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::managing this business together. And where the couple this morning was,
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::you know, they brought their partner in later. And it,
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::it's definitely like that person's, you know,
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::the business along with their partner who comes in as, as support. Uh,
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::and there's lots of different ways to, you know,
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::create and run a business. And I've did, did some quick interviews with some,
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::uh, couples that have, that were in businesses. What I noticed is, um,
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::about the seven year mark,
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::they stopped being in business together. Now,
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::the couple I interviewed today, they,
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::they've only been at it for about three years, even though they've been,
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::they've had other sort of side businesses like real estate,
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::they've own, uh, property together. Uh, but this particular business,
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::they've only done a couple years. And so I, I'm super interested, you know,
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::they're getting close to retirement and I think it might be a seven year thing
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::where they just need to just close down the whole thing. But, uh,
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::right. And so you two, um,
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::have had more than seven years. And so, um, yeah,
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::20,
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::Yeah, 26 years working together and being together,
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::That, that's amazing. You know, just being together for that long.
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::And then second, being in one business for that long.
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::And then like on top, top of that,
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::that layer that is just extra special is that, um, you're providing this
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::a different sort of service. Like, it's not all Terry's effort.
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::It's not all Sonya's effort. It, it, it, it really does.
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::The core is what Sonya is. Right. And, and provides.
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::And so that's an interesting, um,
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::interesting, um, business model in essence to be in.
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::And so I'm gonna start a little bit by asking you two to describe the
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::business that you're in,
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::because what we do is most of the time is trade time for money.
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::And to some degree,
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::you have a little bit of everything in your business time for
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::a widget time for, excuse me, money for a widget, money for time,
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::or money for an experience. Hmm.
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::I'll let you go first.
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::Well, yeah, like, like how would you describe your business?
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::Um, well, just historically too. Um, yes,
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::we have done this for 26 years, but there were seven years
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::actually before that with me and Cindy.
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::So when Terry and I started working together,
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::Terry had already done a lot of other businessy kinds of stuff.
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::And I'm not businessy at all. I mean, you know, I, I'm,
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::I'm just sort of like, what's for dinner? I mean,
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::I'm not terribly like that because I,
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::obviously you have to plant seeds literally and figuratively. But, um,
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::but there was a business, and I did have ideas about that.
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::And when I worked with Cindy before Terry, it was a very, like,
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::we're gonna do that no matter what. And whether that meant like,
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::whatever that was,
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::we were very outrageous and we really were quite successful in that first seven
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::year period. And then of course, Cindy retired to be a mom full-time. And,
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::and I was really spinning, I was really lost puppy.
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::And then when I met Terry again,
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::Terry and I had already met many years before that.
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::I was just always in awe of her command of whatever project
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::she was doing. It just, whether it was Atlanta Pride or it was, you know,
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::turning around gay rights or the lack thereof in a certain state,
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::um, to get some legislature through that didn't, you know,
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::diminish our population, um, or whatever. Um, so,
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::so I was always like, wow, this person can handle anything. And,
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::and I was also, she also seemed like the most out, most, like,
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::like philosophically and spiritually, just, I was always very, you know,
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::not to mention that when I first saw her,
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::this is gonna be longer than 25 minutes.
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::I think we're gonna go to at least 26 just on my answer alone. But I,
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::I will shut up. I'll tie this up. Um, when I first saw her and I was playing,
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::and I didn't know who she was or anything,
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::and this is 1989 in Knoxville, um,
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::I just saw, I mean, I was like, I have the best job in the world. Like,
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::I get to sing to this person, and she's smiling at me like, oh my God, I like,
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::I can die tonight. So, um, yeah, so some, somehow she'll tell,
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::she'll probably talk about that. Like, um, 10 years, well,
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::not quite 10 years later, but like eight years later or something,
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::we fell in love and I was already in like, wow. But it was never right.
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::And then, and I did, we were on a Ferris wheel and I asked her to manage me,
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::and she was like, I don't know anything about this business. And I was like,
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::you'll learn.
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::So the first couple years I think she was listening to me more because I was
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::like, I could kind of get her to do what I wanted her to do,
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::because she sort of had a little bit of insecurity.
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::'cause this is the music business, and she was used to the political business,
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::which is a lot more honest, as she will tell you, than the music business,
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::which really says a lot. The music business,
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::I'm not so sure that's true anymore, but it was when I started,
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::it was before the, the certain, the craziness of now. But, but anyway, um,
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::everything goes in cycles. And we have, but we, we definitely,
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::we can get into this too, but we definitely have very different, different ways,
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::you know, and it's hard, I think for her sometimes. I, I own 51% of it.
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::She owns 49%. That's the split. But, um,
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::she's very powerful. And, uh, and in the years that I listened to her,
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::um, some really amazing things have happened. Um, but I think we're always,
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::I think we're continually finding our ground. Hmm. That would be,
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::I think that's true. I, you know, it's funny because when, um,
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::after we'd been together, I guess five or six years, Sonya said, you know,
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::I really, you,
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::you've put as much into this business model as selling the merchandise and all
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::of that as I have. And I wanna, you know, I wanna make this a 50 50 split.
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::And I said, absolutely no way. I, I truthfully didn't think I deserved anything,
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::because the reality is, is it's Sonya's music and Sonya, who is the entity,
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::and, and as far as I'm concerned, and she's, she really felt strongly about it.
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::And I insisted on then, if we were gonna do that,
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::it had to be 51% for her. Because as far as I'm concerned,
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::no one should ever own her music. I mean, if I had my way,
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::we would buy her back from Warner Chapel and Rounder and everybody else,
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::because I feel strongly that musicians should own their own things. And, and,
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::and,
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::and then while I own a percentage of the business as far as merchandising and
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::all that, her music is always a thousand percent hers. Um, you know,
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::and, and will always be there as long as I'm alive to protect it. Um, but,
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::you know, uh, it's, it's, it's definitely a,
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::a a different kind of business. 'cause there's all, you know,
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::there's her publishing, there's her writing, there's her performer,
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::and then there's merchandising.
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::And without merchandising you can't live.
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::But Sonia used to have in her contract that she couldn't see the me the mere
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::merchandise. She didn't wanna think about selling her music.
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::If it had been up to her, she'd have given it away. And, um,
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::so I had to make her realize that even Madonna pitches her CD on The Late Show,
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::on the Late Show. You know, so if I,
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::one night we were watching late Night TV and I said, look,
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::Madonna's telling people to go out and buy her cd if Madonna can do it,
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::you certainly can ask people to buy your cd, but, you know, I have a hard time.
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::That's right. Model, model some other, like, you know,
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::super powerful performers. But she
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::Won't, I mean, she's horrible about even saying it from the stage.
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::It's like, but I, I, I write it down,
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::You know? I get it. Right. I get it Right. You know,
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::so I'm gonna talk a little bit about, 'cause I, I know, um, Terry,
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::that you have, uh, a legal background.
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::Intellectual property is such a big thing for,
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::for attorneys really to, to help business owners in general,
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::whether you're an artist or, uh, you know, a graphic artist, uh,
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::a musician or a, um, a ski instructor.
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::If you have special sauce and that's your, um, intellectual property,
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::you need to protect it. You know? And I think, you know,
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::that has really probably been an interesting mix
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::to add to this very creative, uh,
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::universe that, that is disappear fear,
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::Right? Yeah. It's, it's really, um, it's, it's fascinating because it's,
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::you know, we,
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::we ran into quite a bit of nightmare pr nightmare
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::situation in the last 20 years because when Sonya was starting,
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::if she decided to, you know,
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::when she went solo after being with Disappear Fear for so long, you know,
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::rounder made it Sonya of Disappear Fear. And then, um,
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::which rightfully so,
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::they always wanted to keep the Disappear Fear name in there.
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::I think they would've been better off to never add the Sonya.
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::But once she started winning awards as Sonya,
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::then it be, if Sonia was more important to disappear Fear there for a while.
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::And so then she wanted to bring a band back and she wanted to once again
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::put Sonia and Disappear Fear. And then it was Sonia Ampersand.
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::And for her it was just graphically whatever looked better for that particular
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::album. The problem is,
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::is that once you get it out there on the internet and the metadata's there,
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::it became a nightmare because if you bought Disappear Fear,
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::they might tell you to buy the Indigo Girls or The Story,
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::or, but they wouldn't tell you to buy Sonya. And if you bought Sonya,
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::they would tell you to buy Bruce Springsteen or Ani DeFranco, or, you know,
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::even, you know, Taylor Swift maybe,
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::but they wouldn't tell you to buy Disappear Fear. So it was like, you know,
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::getting them to cross-reference it, what became a real nightmare situation.
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::And we actually ended up having to take things down and
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::pay to re-list them in order to get them to combine them,
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::because whoa, fans were searching for an album and they'd say,
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::we can't find it anywhere.
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::And it's because it was under Sonya ampersand instead of Sonya Ann.
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::So she is an absolute PR nightmare because artistically she
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::wants to do what she wants to do,
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::and God forbid you tell her you can't PR nightmare anymore,
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::it's bad. That's true. I'm not, Halloween's coming so often,
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::so much,
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::You know, part of this
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::We're challenge. How's that is, so,
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::This is so beautiful because I mean, you guys really know your business,
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::Terry, you've looked at those, what I'm gonna call KPIs,
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::which is just business speak, right? Those key performance indicators,
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::which is how are, how are albums moving?
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::And you are really aware of what is happening with your merchandise,
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::and that is a beautiful thing. Um, you know,
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::and it translates across other types of businesses, you know,
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::and I love that you know,
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::that with so much precision and that you have activated yourself
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::to correct this.
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::Yeah, well, I mean, it's, it's not, it's still not easy. I mean,
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::it's like every little thing, Spotify, but I do, you know,
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::it's like now when I speak at a conference or any kind of music conference or,
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::or folk lines or any of those things, I really tell young artists,
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::be very aware of your branding and be very aware of what, you know,
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::it may sound artistic to change something, but it's not.
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::Once you have that brand, it's your brand and live into it, you know? But,
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::um, you really have to think about it before you change it, um,
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::because you set yourself up.
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::Yeah. That's, that's, that's really interesting. I, you know,
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::I wouldn't have thought that that would be something,
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::so do you get paid for these speaking gigs? I'm just curious. Um,
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::I actually have been paid for them,
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::and I have donated them for things that I really believe I,
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::and anytime a young artist, I, I mean, I give my card out, I, I, I don't know,
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::she gives away her intellectual property all the time.
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::I, for every artist she's helped, or, or hundred dollars.
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::So Sonja's really good about telling everybody that if she had a dollar for
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::every time somebody has said, I need a Terry, you know, she'd be really,
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::really wealthy. Right. You need be richer.
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::Well, you know, there, there's a way to monetize that.
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::Right? I know. But she won her heart's bigger than her intellectual property.
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::Well, part, you know, that is the thing, right? You, you, you know,
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::legally that you have this intellectual property floating around and that, well,
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::you know,
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::The thing ist just funny because if it's an artist that
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::I know financially can afford to hire me, I listen, I,
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::you know, I'm not opposed to getting paid.
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::But I also know that there's sometimes that I believe so strongly in an artist
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::that I would do it for free in a minute,
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::because I just know that they need to be out there. And I mean, when I,
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::you know, when I went to work with Sonia originally, I mean,
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::I was only gonna do it for a year and, you know,
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::just to help her get back on track. And, um, you know,
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::she was between managers and it really never intended to be a full-time gig.
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::I mean, this was gonna be, her label wanted somebody to go to Europe with her.
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::And I was gonna do this one tour, and I thought it'd be fun.
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::We had just started dating, let's go to Europe together.
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::And 26 years later, you know,
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::my parents finally stopped asking when I was going back to work. That's, I was
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::Thinking, I was gonna say somebody brought the U-Haul along. Well,
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::You know, I asked her, I, I told her once, I said, you know, if I work with you,
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::then we can't be together. And she said, but, but there, there, okay,
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::that is all true. But here is the globe.
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::This is a visual, the best places on earth to snorkel.
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::This is how Terry runs my career. Well,
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::Some people might say, go to Nashville, go to la go to New York.
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::No, we go to the Great Barrier Reef. We go to,
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::uh, a lot we go to, anyway, no, it's, it's fabulous. But I mean,
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::I, I did say that a co 'cause now we're in Europe a whole lot more,
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::and Germany doesn't not have snorkeling for sure.
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::At least not the kind you're thinking of. But, um, so yeah. So, but there,
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::there are, there are things that we've, her,
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::I asked her when we got together, um, 'cause you know, I wasn't,
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::I I didn't think we should be together and work together. And she said, well,
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::it's actually easier to find a good girlfriend than a manager.
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::And I was like, thanks a lot, you know? And, um, so
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::yeah. Yeah. So
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::Nice. Yeah. Very persuasive.
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::Very persuasive. Proud of you.
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::So it was a U-Haul with an office.
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::Yeah, exactly. That's what it was. She'll, she'll tell you that she basically,
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::um, just wanted to make sure that my focus was completely on her. So it's like,
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::okay.
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::Yeah, I haven't heard the story, really. I mean, we were,
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::we were there for a little window.
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::Yes, you were, you were there at the very beginning. Yeah,
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::Yeah. We were, we were there for a little window of it. And, you know,
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::we were happy to see it unfold, uh, for both of you. Um,
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::and, uh, we're, and we're happy,
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::so happy that so many years later that you're still, you know,
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::figuring out that dynamic. Well,
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::And that's how I feel about seeing you guys still working together and being
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::together. That's cool.
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::'cause I remember when you were just starting to do some video stuff together
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::and, you know, and Piper, you were still out on the music scene and, you know,
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::I mean, that's the thing is when I first started working with Sonya,
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::I was still producing events and, you know, disappear Fear was one of the bands,
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::as was kid sister that performed for me. So, you know, it's like, I mean,
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::I knew it from that side of the music business.
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::I just always believed that every promoter treated every artist the way
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::that I did. And that if they told you something was in a contract,
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::that that's how it was done.
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::And I was shocked to find out when I went to work with Sonya that, you know,
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::we'd show up and the hotel was supposed to be prepaid and it wasn't. And, um,
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::or the promoter after the gig would say, you know,
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::we've had kind of a rough month, could we negotiate? I,
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::I was just shocked because I didn't think that that's how things were.
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::And um, Sonia said, welcome to the music business. And I was like,
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::this is worse than politicians, because politicians,
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::you have a hard time getting them to say yes, but once they do,
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::they usually do keep their word on it. Um, not anymore, but in the old days,
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::um, you know, and I was shocked because in the music business,
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::it's not that way because they know that musicians are not gonna sue a venue
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::because they don't wanna shoot themselves in the foot.
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::And it's just really horrible to see how musicians get taken advantage of.
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::Right. And, and so that leads me to the idea that, you know,
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::you're a, an ethical and, uh,
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::sort of attentive business person, Terry,
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::which meant that when you put together your, um,
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::events that you were actually working along some
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::business ethics, right? So you are treating them as if they were professionals,
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::uh, musicians, and then you weren't treating them like, oh,
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::it's just something I could get for free, right? If,
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::if I just sweet talk and kick the dirt around and then promise to bring them
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::back, right? So that,
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::that's not the mo that most businesses operate in under.
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::So, um, good on you for, for, uh, you know,
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::treating folks with respect. Well, you
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::Know, and, and the thing is, is like, I mean,
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::I did have events where I asked performers to perform for free, but if I did,
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::I always made sure they had great sound.
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::I always made sure that I tried to get them a paid gig in the area as well. And,
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::and I made sure I publicized them because one of the things about all these big
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::prides is I can really make a performer's career.
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::If I can put them in front of 300,000 people like I did in Atlanta,
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::I can really do a great thing for them.
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::But if I put them in front of 300,000 people and the sound sucks,
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::I can also kill them because I've now shown the world that, and the,
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::and the world's gonna think they sucked,
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::and it might have nothing to do with them. And so I was really, really heavy on,
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::you know, making sure the sound was good, the production was great,
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::and that I publicized them because you owe a performer that,
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::and one of my pet peeves is prides that higher straight
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::performers who supposedly our allies, but make money off of our community,
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::but don't give to our community.
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::And yet the very ones that we ask to raise the money for our community,
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::we don't hire for the big events. We finally get the money to have a big event,
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::and we don't bring in the gay performers who built us. We bring in divas.
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::And it really ticks me off, you know, and still to this day,
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::it's one of my biggest pet peeves.
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::So it sounds like you need to run the workshop how to put on, uh,
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::like the Badass Pride event.
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::Yeah,
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::Right. You know, and that way, you know, you, you can express what you want and,
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::and get for the community what you think they deserve. Right.
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::So it sounds like a, you know, workshop in the making
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::That does. It does.
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::And, and, and so, uh, you guys, you know, the 51 49,
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::like I, what I did some preliminary, um,
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::uh, research. I noticed that most couples,
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::they don't have a formalized, uh,
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::meeting or business strategy. Do you guys, um,
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::sit down in a formal way and talk about like,
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::the future of the business?
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::Not as much as we should. We have at times. Um, and in fact,
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::we have a meeting this afternoon, but, um,
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::we don't do it as strictly as we should. Um, you know, Sonia, if it,
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::you know, I, like I said, I went into this with a temporary mindset.
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::I really intended to find a better music manager for her.
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::And in a lot of ways, I,
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::I don't think that I have been the best thing
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::for Disappear Fear and Sonia and what she wanted to accomplish, because
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::I mean, I mean, you guys are well aware of,
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::of what they did for the community and how strong they were.
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::And I'm not sure I took her to, I took her around the world,
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::but I'm not sure I really progressed her as well as a music manager could have.
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::Do I think personally I've been good for her maybe help wise
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::and stuff. Yes. But I, I think,
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::I think she'd be 10 times the artist out there in the world that she is,
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::if she'd had a real music manager versus me.
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::I, I don't think I, she says that. But, um, you know, I, I think,
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::okay, so at some point in everybody's life, and I think maybe you,
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::you guys think this too, you may have different ideas business wise,
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::and you may have different ideas relationship wise,
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::but there's like a bowl that holds one or the other, or like,
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::my bowl is made of our relationship and in that bowl is our work
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::together. So it do, I think some of that's true.
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::Yeah. But my, my bowl is our relationship.
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::So what occurs to me in the music business is, um,
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::not gonna make or break that bowl. Um,
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::and that's just how, you know, how I hold and how I,
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::how I feel about it. Um,
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::because I think that if I did do, I wanted Terry's attention,
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::I wanted like this focused on my life,
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::you know? And, and 'cause when she's working on something,
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::she is Virgo and she is a thousand percent in it. And I wanted that.
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::And the price of that is, you know, all the, all the other passion.
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::And not, when you said you were in it temporarily,
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::you were in it temperamentally continually because she has a de
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::temperament. That's difficult. I mean, like, we, you know,
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::there has been a time when, like I, we, I had this show in, um, Sweden,
393
::and I was playing after abba. Okay. Sweden and Abba, she fired me.
394
::It wasn't, it wasn't the real Abba,
395
::but it was like the best national global touring band of Abba,
396
::like with the same outfits, the same wigs in the town,
397
::Stockholm that launched Abba. So, okay. So like,
398
::I was a little nervous, you know, like, understandably so. But um,
399
::but I did do the gig. It worked out great. And,
400
::and that was back in like nine nine she nine, she fired me four times that day.
401
::And I said, you know, you can only fire somebody once. It was, you know,
402
::you haven't hired me back.
403
::I haven't fired Piper in a while.
404
::It's been at least a month. I think so, yes. I think,
405
::I think I haven't been fired this month though. We're the month isn't over,
406
::You know, ultimately that doesn't sound like a fireable offense being, you know,
407
::opening.
408
::Well know. She told me when we got there for soundcheck, she said, Terry, no,
409
::Abba was opening for me. Yeah. She was the headliner. I was the non.
410
::And she says, Lisa, I can't wait after Abba. That's even better.
411
::I have legitimate concerns. Come on. Yeah, she said, she said, no. She goes,
412
::Terry, this is insane. She goes,
413
::you need to go to the promoter and tell them they need to change the production
414
::order. And I said, I'm not gonna do that. I said, you have been,
415
::I was solo with my guitars. I said,
416
::you have been listed the band all over the city as the headliner for this event,
417
::and you really want me to go to them and say,
418
::I know you think you hired this international artist,
419
::but she doesn't think she's big enough. And she said, yes. And I said,
420
::you're outta your mind. You're a pro. I said, you know, I said,
421
::you are the headliner and you'll be fine. They knew what they hired.
422
::And she said, Terry, it's Abba in Sweden. And I said, who caress?
423
::You know? So my feeling was, but you know what?
424
::The producer knew exactly what he was doing after they did their third encore,
425
::which also made her even more nervous. Um,
426
::he dimmed all the lights and he set off all this colored smoke,
427
::and then he had her, it was smoke, but he had lights on it,
428
::so it looked like Yeah. And it was so cool. Came through it. Yeah.
429
::Was really come reproduction. And it was, I mean, I was, I had a share moment.
430
::Everybody forgot about them two seconds. So, you know, she was fine.
431
::She did great. In fact, she got so many encore,
432
::they actually had to shut down the stage. 'cause sound was,
433
::time was running over, was closed.
434
::She ended up unplugging her guitar and jumping into the audience,
435
::which was like eight feet,
436
::which I didn't really realize the stage was that high.
437
::No, thank
438
::God. They, that was just hugging people. It was just total lovefest. It was.
439
::So she was fine. But I did get fired four nights, four times that night.
440
::Anyway. That's
441
::Awesome. One of my questions was gonna be share a best moment.
442
::And now let's talk about, and you talked a little bit about, you know,
443
::sort of like less successful moments in the business, um,
444
::relationship. Uh, um,
445
::so do you have something that comes to mind that you'd be willing to share with
446
::us?
447
::Less successful, or
448
::I'm not gonna call
449
::Less,
450
::Less, less
451
::Successful. Um, like when she got outta the car, the turnpike,
452
::and she was like walking and I'm like,
453
::you can't walk on the New Jersey burn bike on the opposite direction
454
::or the time she got outta of the car in New York. And,
455
::and there were six lanes of traffic coming towards us because I was giving her
456
::directions and she was like,
457
::stop giving me directions if you think you can do this better.
458
::And she literally got outta the car. Oh, no, no, no.
459
::She gave me directions and we turned the wrong way. The circle the by Hudson.
460
::Yeah, the park slope and, and then circle.
461
::So I was facing four lanes of traffic going the wrong direction in New York City
462
::in Brooklyn. And I just stopped, no,
463
::it was by the wetlands that's in Manhattan. I,
464
::I stopped the car and I said, you drive then. And she goes, Terry,
465
::you can't just stop here. All the traffic stopped. It was amazing.
466
::I shut down New York City and I was like, I was not getting back,
467
::turn around or the time she drive me to New York and she wasn't driving me.
468
::She fell asleep. And then that was the problem. Like,
469
::whenever she would fall asleep, I would fall asleep and I fell asleep.
470
::And I almost like, we almost, she wrecked the car, did wreck the car.
471
::We were okay though, but
472
::Less successful. Glad you made it safe out of those situations,
473
::but it's very entertaining stories.
474
::Yeah. I mean,
475
::So I appreciate you sharing that with us.
476
::There was some business stuff though, like early on in Sonya's career.
477
::She actually had, um, promoters that like, you know,
478
::decided one night that, um,
479
::$500 was enough for two little girls, her and her sister,
480
::even though the agreement had been the door and it had been a lot more than
481
::that. But, you know, those kinds of things. She actually, I mean,
482
::and went to the sheriff's department and they wouldn't help her. So
483
::Yeah. Oh yeah. I have lots of guys.
484
::Yeah. That, that, you know, having, having those contracts and having somebody,
485
::you know, doing business is at any level, you know,
486
::there have been, you know, contracts that we had that we didn't get paid.
487
::And it's like, oh, well, yeah, they skipped town. Do you go to court?
488
::And their name is mine.
489
::Yeah, exactly.
490
::And do you go to court and tie up so much more of your time and energy?
491
::You know? And there are times where even if it was for $2, I would just,
492
::because they're jerks, but most of the time it's just like, you know what,
493
::we have a great life and, um,
494
::we have more important things to do with it than, you know,
495
::sit there and try to, you know, get somebody to do the right thing.
496
::It's their karma that they have to live with, so.
497
::Right. Well, um, you know,
498
::some of the things that we were looking at is, um, you know, that formal,
499
::you know, discussion about business. It, it,
500
::it's hard for us because, you know,
501
::you live together and you spend so much time when you're doing the,
502
::the task of the business, right. That, you know, having those formal meetings,
503
::sometimes you put it on the calendar and then sometimes you don't. Right.
504
::And then you're like trying to, you know, make these,
505
::these decisions. You know, I'm 51%,
506
::so like a lot of times I don't put what's in my head down for Piper to know
507
::that's the direction we're going. In my mind,
508
::reading is not working at that moment. Right. Whatever. And so, and so,
509
::you know, if you weren't a couple, you know,
510
::that's probably not how you'd run it.
511
::Yeah, yeah, that's true. I mean, absolutely. You, you know,
512
::it'd be a lot different structure if we weren't,
513
::there are a lot of decisions that we've made. Um, the couple thing,
514
::so comes into it, and I would say a big part of that is Germany.
515
::We were in Germany for three months last year, and there's no way,
516
::if I wasn't married to Terry,
517
::that I would've been in Germany away from my wife for three months. I just,
518
::that's not gonna happen. So we're able to, I mean, as far as
519
::during the world, um, Um,
520
::we're able to, to do that. I've had, I mean, I was in,
521
::in another life, it seems like another lifetime earlier in my career involved.
522
::Um, you know, my partner, my girlfriend, um,
523
::was at first kind of like our tour manager, and then when we had the band,
524
::she didn't wanna be our tour manager, so she was like, so it was more like,
525
::talk for as much as we can in the morning and talk as much as we can at night.
526
::But we were in different parts of the country and of the US and, um,
527
::you know, it was challenging, you know,
528
::because I would have like such a good time somewhere, and I'm like,
529
::you gotta come to Charlottesville. It's so cool. They have the best restaurant.
530
::They did this, they did this, you know.
531
::And that not only did that not happen later, but life goes on.
532
::And, um, so with, you know, it's so,
533
::it's so precious that we have this, you know, this, this time together that we,
534
::that I can make decisions of. Like, yeah, let's go here, let's go here.
535
::You know? And also to accommodate Terry, Terry, um,
536
::frequently we'll work for the Olympics. You know,
537
::we took off time for her to do that in Australia. Um,
538
::there there's more Olympics coming up and, um, there's things that, you know,
539
::that we've been able to negotiate for her priorities particularly more lately,
540
::um, when we're coming back from something, you know,
541
::a big birthday for her mom or someone else in the family,
542
::or just things like that. Because as you get older, you know,
543
::those things I guess become more important. You're so, like, you know,
544
::when you're in your twenties and thirties, you like kind of, maybe I,
545
::I don't wanna say this directly,
546
::but you sort of almost throw away your family a little bit. Oh,
547
::they're gonna be here forever.
548
::And then you realize they're not actually gonna be here forever.
549
::And every moment's so important. So you get to that, you know,
550
::those priorities, you know, that's part of the cycle. So, um,
551
::that's, you know, that shifts well, and, and you know, one of,
552
::one of the things that happened when I got involved with Sonya is I gave up
553
::producing prides. I mean, I had done it for years. And, um,
554
::I gave that up because I was on the road with her,
555
::and it really was difficult to be, you know, promoting.
556
::And then international disappear.
557
::Fear Day has grown and grown and grown exponentially over the last 30 years.
558
::And, um, it really became a,
559
::a big human rights gathering and, and, uh, especially virtually.
560
::And, um,
561
::I noticed that the backlash against gays, L G B T,
562
::all this work that I had done all those years ago that I thought we had made
563
::such huge progress in all of a sudden seemed to be slipping away.
564
::And so a couple years ago, um,
565
::when we made the decision to link International Disappear Fair Day with
566
::the international coordinate pride coordinators,
567
::and to really try to make sure that we knew
568
::what was going on again,
569
::because I felt like I just kind of took for granted that we'd made so many
570
::strides that it could never go away. And I have to say, I, I, I'm,
571
::I'm embarrassed to say that because I,
572
::I now am back involved with Prides and stuff because I just
573
::feel like, what happened? How did this happen?
574
::How did we lose so much ground after we had gained so much
575
::ground? I mean, I really loved the fact that we had added recycling to Pride,
576
::that we had had added interpreters, that we had braille guides available,
577
::that we had become a human rights event.
578
::And slowly but surely I've noticed that the backlash from the community, um,
579
::from the, you know, the far right and others, not just them,
580
::has gotten so atrocious.
581
::And part of it is that we got Slack about really
582
::promoting the human rights aspects of our own community too.
583
::We went back to the big party things.
584
::We started taking for granted the very growth
585
::that we had made in our own events. And, um,
586
::I think we need to take stock of that.
587
::I think we need to own the responsibility of our own miss actions too.
588
::So, um, I wanna see more movement, you know,
589
::I really wanna see that movement towards prides being human rights events again.
590
::That that's awesome. What,
591
::what I love about you two is that there's this overlap in such
592
::a deep and meaningful way about your values and your commitment to our
593
::community. Um, and to be inclusive. Well, and, and just sort of,
594
::it's
595
::Bigger than it's way bigger than us. Yeah. It's way bigger than us, right?
596
::It's gonna be, it's going to be way after us. It's been way before us.
597
::We're just little pieces in it. But, um, tasty pieces,
598
::you know, and, and when, when Maryland laughed,
599
::when the state of Maryland last year, um,
600
::recognized international Disappear Fear Day officially,
601
::and made a resolution that on February 18th is international Disappear Fear Day,
602
::it was such a huge thing for our state to do. And, and it meant so much,
603
::uh, because, you know,
604
::I've watched this one give so much of herself over the years and,
605
::and really be about inclusivity and, um,
606
::and disappearing fear amongst people. And so for our state to recognize us,
607
::and the very weak that our state was recognizing international Disappear Fear
608
::Day, just a couple states away in Tennessee,
609
::they were passing bills that took away people's rights and,
610
::you know, trans and can't drag queens. I mean, come on. You know,
611
::it's like since wind did a drag performer become this dangerous offensive
612
::person. And so I just, it really,
613
::really woke me up to the fact that, you know, you,
614
::you can't ignore it and you can't, uh, take it for granted.
615
::And I'm hopeful that the young ones, you know,
616
::understand that every aspect of what the work you do
617
::is precious and important.
618
::Amen. Amen. I, I agree. I mean, I'm,
619
::I'm glad that there are folks like you out there fighting really hard.
620
::If you were approached by a couple that looked like
621
::y'all, where it's like, Hey, should we go into business together?
622
::What kind of advice would you give?
623
::I'm sorry. We should, we should be serious. Um,
624
::What kind of advice? Okay. For myself to see a little Sonya out there,
625
::my advice and my advice, even this afternoon when we meet later,
626
::meet later speak and listen,
627
::is to listen is for me to listen and process. And I think,
628
::um, I think, you know, our biggest, um,
629
::battleground or our biggest enemy is anxiety. Like,
630
::I'm so who I am. I'm so my music and my art, you know? And
631
::so I feel also like that I,
632
::I have too much information because sometimes I'll say to Terry as my wife,
633
::I gotta talk to you as my wife because my manager's driving me insane. Um, or,
634
::or vice versa. And we'll, we'll role play that way.
635
::And just to be able to speak to her like, she's not my manager,
636
::she's just my wife. That's really, really important.
637
::'cause she has a different listening to it too. 'cause she kind of like puts on,
638
::oh, no, no, no. Like why is she doing that to you? You know? I mean,
639
::it's sort of like, you know, I tell her to fire her manager all the time.
640
::She has, she has, she has said that. And as her manager,
641
::I tell her she can't afford a divorce when she wants to b***h about her wife.
642
::So I don't really b***h about my wife that much to her. I don't, I just,
643
::I'm just me. But, um, but, but anyway, that's what I would say.
644
::I would say for me as a human being, listen, she's a,
645
::Terry's a very good listener and it's very unarm or disarming and
646
::frustrating when we're having a tiff because she can say back verbatim. Like,
647
::I didn't say that. Like, yes you did. I dunno if about your,
648
::your ways go that way or whoever's else is watching this. But, um, yeah,
649
::I would say for me, for little Sonya,
650
::I would say listen and be as clear as you can. Um,
651
::because she is listening for me,
652
::I would say really, really, really live by the no horizontal rule,
653
::which is you don't talk business once you lay down to go to sleep at night.
654
::You know,
655
::because it's really hard to do if you're gonna be in business together.
656
::Sonya's grandmother, when I first started dating Sonya Sonya's grandmother,
657
::who I had known before because we were friends already, um, said,
658
::so you're gonna work with Sonya? And I said, yeah. And she said, you know,
659
::that's gonna ruin your sex life. And I went, and I,
660
::I was horrified, you know,
661
::but she was so red and I was like, well,
662
::at least I know she takes it as serious as any other relationship. You don't,
663
::we don't even been dating in like two weeks or something.
664
::And my grandmother was like, are you married? Yeah. It was so funny though,
665
::because I wanted to, she was so serious. I mean,
666
::she was like 85 years old and she was so serious. And she goes, you know,
667
::though, and I was like, she, but you know, she wise woman.
668
::I will say that that's, that's the biggest thing is that, um,
669
::you have to consciously make time for your relationship if you're gonna be in
670
::business together. And it's really hard to do. It's, I mean,
671
::we've only had three vacations in our life where we've actually left the phone
672
::and computers off, you know, in, in, in, in 26 years.
673
::And we actually, our honeymoon, we completely,
674
::only time we turned on a phone was to call our nephew to wish him a happy 18th
675
::birthday the rest of the time.
676
::It didn't come back on until we checked in for our flight home. Um,
677
::and her 50th birthday. And then one other time we actually,
678
::she was off her phone for a week because she left her phone at home. So,
679
::but that's it. I mean, and seriously, that was a vacation consciously though.
680
::Yeah, that was actually a conference,
681
::but consciously only two vacations in 26 years where you don't do any work
682
::or phone is not good. It's actually really not good.
683
::I mean, we have days and she,
684
::one day a week takes Shabbat and actually from sunset to sunset turns her phone
685
::off, unless he absolutely has to have it on. But, um,
686
::which is healthy too, and I highly recommend it, not just for the environment,
687
::but it's also healthy for your mind. But I,
688
::I would say definitely pay attention to that because if you're gonna work
689
::together,
690
::your relationship is gonna be what suffers and ultimately that will make your
691
::business suffer. So, um, definitely make time.
692
::Great advice, great advice, great advice, all those things.
693
::So I don't think I have any more questions. So we'll just, uh,
694
::Thank you so much, happiness. That was great to see you.
695
::We wanna thank our friends, Sonia and Terry for joining us on the show today.
696
::Check out the Sonya disappear fear.com website where you can purchase Sonya's
697
::music, find cool stuff to buy and learn about concerts and projects.
698
::Key peaked interest, K p i, entrepreneurial insight,
699
::L G B T Q editions. Hey y'all. Hi y'all. I'm Piper.
700
::I'm Monique. As a woman and minority owned business,
701
::we're interested in talking to couples that look like us lesbian couples in a
702
::service business. That's why this podcast exists.
703
::I've been looking for a queer business podcast that showcased L G B T Q and Bipo
704
::owners found the few in each category, but none that mixed the two.
705
::So we created Key Peaked Interest podcasts.
706
::This show is looking to honestly connect with other successful
707
::L G B T Q couples in business. We hope you enjoyed this episode.
708
::We're open to nominations, introductions, and suggestions for guests.
709
::Hit us up in the comments and thanks for watching and listening. Thanks.
710
::Join us for a special three night retreat designed for lesbian couples running
711
::a business who are ready to level up and create new wealth in their current
712
::business. The retreat will be held at a beautiful beach venue in Oak Island,
713
::North Carolina. On the first night,
714
::we'll have a relaxing dinner and cocktail social,
715
::along with an introduction to daily habits.
716
::You'll be starting the next two days.
717
::We'll walk through creating more time and space to level up in your business,
718
::lean into your strengths as a couple to fuel your million dollar business model.
719
::Focus on your vision mindset and more.
720
::We've built in time for walks on the beach and plenty of moments to enjoy the
721
::salt, water, air. Walk away with a million dollar plan for your business.
722
::That features understanding of your personal genius,
723
::a custom offer that is scalable and new connections with other business owners
724
::that understand your life.
725
::The cost per couple is $10,000. We look forward to seeing you there.
